Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests. Posted: Wed Jan 02, am. Recently, there have been a number of posts and questions about simulating hull plating on our models. What I'd like to do is, get everyone's input for the different methods they use for this, and I'd like to eventually add it to the Tips Section, or maybe the FAQ. What methods have you used successfully?
Paul Budzik is midel, with a new amazing tutorial dedicated to ships modellers looking for top quality and not scaried to try something new. Both methods will work. Good luck and keep us posted! Thanks for the input guys. Forum sponsored by:. I painted and the effect--even tho somewhat exaggerated--was almost lost.
Pfiff bras. Recommended Posts
It is often difficult to locate drawings, especially of some of the older ships, even when they are known to exist. It looks like a thin PVA glue and is water soluble but acts like a superglue in many respects. For each loading condition, the displaced water weight or buoyancy is Ship model hull plating for that hull section based on the displaced volume of water within that hull section. The next stage is to mark the plating on the surface of the former, together with hull openings condenser inlets and outlets, asdic stowage, hawseholes, portholes, magazine flood inlets etc. Here you can see how the changes in row layout appear. Thick strips of card, with rivets popped through from the inside with a blunt centre punch and glued with PVA. September Learn how and when to remove this template message. Regrettably the Dys paint strip system is now Ship model hull plating out of print but it is well worth seeking out. Photo 1. Pin us Arkans wife Pinterest. Most modelers who have worked with the copper tape method are familiar with the ponce wheel as shown in Photo 6. Steel wool and Pre-Sol were also helpful to remove the unwanted residue. Follow us on Twitter. Primary hull loads, strength, and bending [ edit ].
Paul Budzik is back, with a new amazing tutorial dedicated to ships modellers looking for top quality and not scaried to try something new.
- Many of the model ships that we build today require the addition of copper plates to the lower hull in accordance with the original ship.
- Plating is one of the most challenging ship characteristics to replicate in miniature form.
- If you enjoy building ship models that are historically accurate as well as beautiful, then The Nautical Research Guild NRG is just right for you.
- The other method of assimilating plating on a hull is to use 0.
- This was well received and I was very pleased when John offered to write an article on model shipbuilding in steel.
- The strength of ships is a topic of key interest to naval architects and shipbuilders.
Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 6 guests. Posted: Mon Nov 28, pm. Hi all, I would like to replicate the hull plating effect painting shown in the awesome models from Hyun Soo Kim : Any idea about the clever masking pattern or any other tip that would reproduce such result? I tried to contact Hyun Soo Kim with no success yet. Thanks for your help Chris.
Hi Pete, I did not see this page of his blog. Seems he uses a very subtle preshading as you said. Too late for my current build Kagero , hull is already painted, guess I will only use some weathering without trying plating effects Thanks for your help!
Posted: Tue Nov 29, am. I've used similar technique on WW1 aircraft to simulate the fabric "sag" between ribs. Posted: Tue Dec 06, pm. It's called "oil canning" K does a great job illustrating how to do it here: viewtopic.
Coffee is not a train in Italy. Posted: Tue Feb 05, am. I've been doing a lot of research into how to create hull effects. You can also look into the topics from Koppalakki, he explained it here. Posted: Fri Mar 22, pm. This stuff, available at auto parts stores, puts down a thick but smooth coat that sets up quickly with the help of a hair dryer.
It may take two coats from the rattlecan, but if you sand it gently with very very fine sandpaper, you get a plate strake the thickness of the masking tape - about. It looks convincing for alternately overlapping plates as shown in the model picture.
One personal peave I have is when the strakes are laid out all parallel to each other like a layer cake. Bad dog. The CAD guys that cut the molds apparently have never looked at a real ship for the plating. These are both really good and accurate models except for this visible plating inaccuracy. The point is: the ship is wider at midships than at either the bow or stern.
Depending upon how "fat" the ship is in the middle, there can be almost twice the number of strakes there as at either end. So the strakes narrow and blend together as you move forward or aft from midships.
Importantly, just like wooden hulled sailing ships, the strakes never end in a point - it is always a blunt end. Others make you happy when they leave. Page 1 of 1. Previous topic Next topic. Post subject: Hull plating effect Posted: Mon Nov 28, pm. John W. You can post new topics in this forum You can reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot post attachments in this forum.
If this happens then the seam will reset with the plate heated and expanded. This structure is then covered in a "skin", i. Unfortunately there is not the same ready access to Col. Either method will leave you with a blob of solder still on the iron tip which, if the iron is simply lifted off, will remain at the end of the joint. The deck former is best made plank on frame.
Ship model hull plating. Blog Archive
Go to the NRG web site www. Search In. Planking Tutorials 1 2 By mtaylor , February 18, Tailing deck beams By allanyed , October Planking my Carrack. Fairing the bulwarks By Bill Madison , October Preferred support when planking? By ortho85 , December 23, Why second hull plank? By bigcreekdad , October Seem to mising some planking. Where do I buy it? Planking the hull By shortgrass , September Constructo Enterprise 1.
Rebuild a ship model kit? By ubjs , September How to make filler blocks By shortgrass , September Curved deck By Slok , September Tarred flannel, where was it used? There are some modelmakers using steel but it is, I believe, greatly undervalued and I hope that you might be persuaded to take a more serious look at it as a building material, if not for hulls then at least for some of the larger components.
This is an excellent and well illustrated account which I found very helpful, and the explanation of hull drawings, with the descriptions of marking out the hull former and of steel hull construction are particularly well done. Chapter 4 of the same book, by Giancarlo Barbieri, describes metal superstructure construction. Regrettably the book is now long out of print but it is well worth seeking out. It is invaluable, particularly for warship modellers.
I shall certainly not attempt to rewrite Norman Ough, and there is no need to try since copies of his articles can easily be obtained. Most of them deal with specific aspects of warship design and construction, rather than with building in steel, making them a valuable source of information so there will be a list of them at the end of this article. Unfortunately there is not the same ready access to Col. Similarly Col. Batchelor will be HTB. He produced a range of warship, warship fittings and armament drawings which are still available and his ship drawings are listed at the end of this article.
Also, as their name indicates, their purpose is to show the ship at the time of construction without subsequent modifications and additions.
Drawings of a ship at a later period of its life, or after a refit, must therefore draw on other sources of information as well. For example, they always include hull plating but, as noted below, shell plating information was and is hard to come by.
Where this is the case it is likely that more specific information was not available, and is probably still not available. In the case of armament, however, there is now much greater access to drawings, photographs and museum examples than in those days and modern drawings may therefore be more accurate and precise.
This applies particularly to the small scale drawings which were included as additional detail at the bottom of some of the ship drawings.
Ironically, the great improvement in available information which often makes modern drawings more reliable is partly due to Norman Ough who worked hard to have drawings and manuals, then still considered confidential, made available for reference rather than destroyed. The first requirement is a former over which to build the steel shell.
This can be produced by any of the standard wooden hull techniques, bread and butter, plank on frame or even carved from solid. However, it does need to be of wood as it has to be fairly heat resistant, the surface must accept marking out and the plates will need to be temporarily pinned in position. If plank on frame is chosen the planking should be reasonably thick to be robust enough to be used in helping to shape curved plates. Ideally the hull former should be slightly undersize to allow for the plating thickness, which will average 0.
If this is a factor then some arrangements will need to be made to allow the completed shell to be removed, perhaps by making the former in sections to allow it to be dismantled. The second part of ASC describes marking out the plating but does not say what to base the marking out on, though HTB does.
It shows the plating of one side of the hull as if it had been peeled off in one piece and laid out flat and looks no more like a hull than a tigerskin rug looks like a tiger.
It contains only one potential trap for the unwary, just as a map projection of the world distorts the continental shapes, so a shell plating drawing distorts the shapes of the plates, though mainly transversely along the station lines. A more serious problem with shell expansion drawings is their rarity. This could be one of the museums or, possibly, a university drawing sources is a topic in its own right. The best alternatives are:. An expansion for a similar ship. Photographs, including drydock photographs if available and study of any expansion drawings available, of any ship.
Representing plating by adding lithoplate, paper or polystyrene plates to a hull is now a fairly common model making technique so that the principles of plating practice are probably reasonably well known, and they are covered in ASC, part 1, and by HTB, who also describes transferring the plating layout to the former in some detail. However, they are a basic essential for steel construction so are worth describing anyway you can always skip this bit. Riveted ships were built in runs of plating running fore and aft called strakes and the vertical joins between the plates could be lapped or butted, Drawing 2.
If butted they have a butt strap, a strip of plate covering the joint to which the ends of the plates were riveted, which might be internal or external. The plates constituting the sheer strake the top edge of the hull are often butted, with external straps. The smoother finish would have improved speed by reducing drag, much like flush riveting in aircraft. There is a story, which might even be true, of Supermarine investigating the benefits of flush riveting by gluing half a split pea on each of the flush rivets in a test aircraft to simulate round rivet heads.
There are many runs of internally strapped butts in my model of HMS Brissenden, but this was a Thornycroft design and not necessarily typical of contemporary Admiralty practice.
Internally strapped butting was more costly and would have been used less in small ships built to a price. The laps in lapped plating runs normally trail, as fish scales do, but this is not invariably the case and the occasional plate might be found to be lapped in the opposite direction, usually at the stern.
However, if in doubt use a trailing lap. Horizontal joints between runs of plating are lapped, but not upper over lower as in clinker planking. The next stage is to mark the plating on the surface of the former, together with hull openings condenser inlets and outlets, asdic stowage, hawseholes, portholes, magazine flood inlets etc.
It is relatively straightforward and is covered in ASC parts 1 and 2, but a little additional detail might be helpful. The former may be marked straight onto the wood, or first given a coat of white primer to make the markings clearer. First mark the line of the keel centreline, which will probably be the only line on the hull which is straight in both planes, with the positions of the stations and of any frames which are close to fittings needing to be marked, such as A frames.
The station and frame lines can now be put on, perpendicular to the keel. A strip of thin card is now placed on the expansion, along a station line with one end on the keel centreline, and the edges of the strakes marked on it. The card strip can now be laid along the station line on the former and the strake edge markings transferred, with the process repeated on the other side of the hull.
When all of the frames have been treated in this way it becomes a simple matter to join the dots to provide the strake edge positions. The vertical joins between plates are more easily transferred by measuring them from the nearest station or frame.
However, note that the ends of the plates are often square so that the joins might or might not be parallel to the frames at either end of the hull where the strake lines follow the hull sheer.
Hull openings and the positions of fittings are marked in relative to station and strake lines, in the same way. Large tins and cans, once readily available free from the corner shop, have been supplanted by other materials. My model of HMS Kashmir was made of reclaimed tinplate, taken mainly from large, flat sided tins, but this involved a lot of preparation.
As NAO says, new tinplate is much easier to work with. The usual sheet metal working tools should be to hand, including a piercing saw with a metal cutting blade, a slitting saw and a selection of small files, and there are one or two special tools which will be needed, mainly home made or improvised, which will be described as we go along.
The handle is held in the palm with the forefinger or thumb in the bowl to apply pressure when rubbing the tinplate, Photo 5.
A stainless steel spoon is preferable to a plated one and a smaller version of the same tool can be made by straightening a pair of sugar tongs try a car boot sale. If the tinplate is rubbed on a hard, smooth surface, dents or buckles can be removed or edge burring flattened. Final shaping of each plate can be done on the part of the hull former that it has to fit.
Illustrations are provided in parts 1 and 2 of ASC, and by HTB, who suggests using Fluxite as a lubricant, though I find that this can make the forming tool, i. NAO suggests that hull construction can be commenced with the keelplate and worked outwards from it, or with the sheer strake, working towards the keel from either side.
HTB favours starting with the keel and I have found this to be the better method, starting with the complete run of plates forming the keel and then adding runs of plating on each side in turn. In this way, only one side and one end of each plate will be soldered at a time.
An attempt to solder two previously soldered areas of plating, or to replace a plate in a completed hull, can be disastrous. When only one edge is being soldered the plate is free to move.
Even so, it is best to solder along the seam working towards the free end of the plate and avoid going back over the work. After shaping each plate apply flux along the two edges to be soldered and hold the plate in position on the former with drawing pins.
Solder the short seam first, running a blob of solder along it slowly enough for the solder to be drawn in under the edge of the plate by capillary action it should easily fill the entire width of the overlap and following the soldering iron with the tip of a short wooden stick to hold the edge of the plate down as it cools, When the joint is cool solder the longitudinal seam in the same way, starting at the end already attached. The small fillet of solder can then be taken off with a chisel.
In fact, where additional strength is needed even more could be allowed. When adding a strake made up of internally strapped, butted plates the idea of using a continuous strip of several plates, possibly with the joins indicated by scribed lines, might seem attractive.
However the expansion of a long strip can produce a cumulative distortion and cause problems, particularly if the plates are flat. In Describing using 0. This made the hull so thin that flat frames, as many as those of angle bar in the real ship, had to be added to stiffen it.
For hull construction I use 8, 10 and 12 thou. Hull openings and portholes are more easily put in each plate before assembly. Drilling can easily distort thin sheet and holes are best made undersize and reamed out. Since most of the ports will be of the same diameter a small reamer is a worthwhile investment if not already available, while other sizes and shapes of hull opening will be deburred and trued up during the shaping operation.
Propeller shaft and rudder fittings are much easier and less risky to install as you come to them rather than after the hull is built. Small hull fittings, such as escape hatches and the half round reinforcement of hawseholes are also much easier to deal with at this stage. Bilge keels should now be added as a part of the shell construction while the shell is still on the former, subject to the same precautions as when adding bulkheads, described below.
Many small ships had a solid stemplate and it is better to fit this in a slot in the bow of the former to allow the plates to be soldered to it in sequence, rather than risk fitting a stemplate later. These are more easily fitted but might be more difficult to shape.
Like any plate with a difficult shape a wraparound stemplate is more easily shaped from brass, which allows easy annealing if required and is therefore much more malleable. Low corrosion liquid fluxes are available, based on fruit acids try a model railway supplier. Alternatively, in difficult situations, solder paint may be used as a flux, with or without additional solder, and it can also be used with a small gas torch for some work.
However the work will need subsequent washing. They are available in diameters down to 1mm. Lower melting point solders, available for a range of temperatures, are sometimes useful when adding to a subassembly joined with standard solder but are not often needed. Since small scale model soldering often takes advantage of the flow characteristics of the solder to produce fillets, virtually using it as a structural material, this could become a problem.
Almost more important than the solder is the iron. Kashmir was built with a 40 Watt iron and a good deal of difficulty. Subsequently smaller irons became available but, while they are suitable for work on small assemblies, they lose heat quickly when used on larger work, such as adding plates to a hull. The real advance came with temperature controlled irons. Though relatively expensive they transform model soldering. They are small, light and easy to use and the tips can be changed quickly and easily.
Moreover they respond immediately to compensate for the tip being cooled by larger work, reproducing the heat reservoir characteristics of a much bigger iron, and the tip temperature can quickly be reset to suit the tip, work or solder.
A temperature controlled iron is almost an essential for fine work. For me, the invention of the temperature controlled soldering iron is right up there with that of the wheel and the Archimedean screw. Do not be caught without one. A small chisel is useful for removing surplus solder or, in restricted spaces, the sort of small tools shown in Photo 8 can be even better.
These are ground from broken needle files, which seem to become available from time to time. This is a copper braid, available in a range of sizes from electronic component suppliers, which will remove solder cleanly and easily, with no risk of damaging the surface. The braid is placed in contact with the solder to be removed and then heated with the tip of the iron. As it melts, the solder is drawn up into the braid by capillary action.
A run of solder along a joint can be produced either by drawing the tip of the iron along the joint or by placing the tip, loaded with a blob of solder, at one end of a prefluxed joint and allowing the solder to run along the line of the joint by capillary action. Either method will leave you with a blob of solder still on the iron tip which, if the iron is simply lifted off, will remain at the end of the joint. It can then be removed with the solder wick as described above, but this will also pull some of the solder out of the joint.
However, if the iron is drawn away from the joint, still in contact with the work, it will take the solder blob with it to a convenient point where it can easily be soaked up without affecting the joint.
Similarly, excess solder can be pulled out of a joint using solder wick. There will normally be a small fillet of solder left along a joint, which can be an advantage if you are reproducing a casting or a rolled steel beam as in a quadrantal davit , and the size of the fillet can be varied by the amount of solder fed into the joint.
However, a clean, sharp join might sometimes be required and, if so, the chisel will be needed. Use the chisel to cut the solder, rather than as a scraper, and keep it at a low angle relative to the work so that it runs over it instead if digging in and damaging the surface. A glass fibre pen will remove thin films of surplus solder or clean the work, though it can also strip the tin plating if not used cautiously.
The completed steel shell will need some bracing to become a usable, rigid hull. However, the sides will be flexible and the entire shell might twist fairly readily. These faults are easily corrected by the addition of a stiff inwale running around the edge of the deck, some cross beams at deck level and, if necessary, two or three bulkheads. Before this can be done the hull will need to be set up to be as true as when it was on the former.
This might be easy or difficult, depending on the hull in question. The rest of the hull is relatively shallow, with a round bilge. This design is very prone to twist, in much the same way as a steel tape measure in which the transverse curve gives it longitudinal rigidity but is too shallow to form an effective girder section. This hull was very difficult to support to a true shape to allow the inwales and transverse bracing to be fitted.
In complete contrast, the hull of Brissenden was very stable and held its shape well, remaining almost the same as when on the former and requiring very little setting up. Brissenden has the forecastle break well aft and the bilge is much more square, a shape closer to that of a typical merchant ship hull, and this forms a deep girder section over most of its length.
This was an intentional design characteristic of the ship, providing an increased structural rigidity which allowed Thornycroft to use lower grade steel than was necessary for conventional destroyer hulls of the period.
It is interesting that this was one of a number of design advances of the Hunt Type 4 which was adopted for subsequent designs, and became virtually standard in small warships. The change also allowed personnel to move from one end of the ship to the other under cover, which was impossible in conventional designs in which the engine and boiler rooms took up the entire enclosed space amidships. The squarer hull section also reduced the traditional destroyer tendency to roll and to heel sharply on turns which the model of Kashmir certainly does.
Brissenden also had particularly large bilge keels and it is interesting that her sister ship, HMS Brecon, was fitted with stabilisers. The stabilisers also occupied space which, in Brissenden, was used for fuel bunkers, increasing her range. Structural stability is provided mainly by a strong and rigid inwale, about 3mm thick and 10mm. It can be seen in Photo 9 and Drawing 6. The lower shelf is fitted first. It is cut in sections about mm long, taking the shape from the drawing of the deck edge, though this will need to be adjusted slightly where the angle between the deck and the hull side becomes acute, making the curve shallower.
It is soldered inside the hull using a template which is long enough to span the widest beam and is shown in Drawing 4, to set the distance from the top edge of the sheer strake and the angle to it. The slot holds the shelf in position for soldering. The upper strip is fitted in the same way, this time cut to the true shape of the deck edge, using another template which is similar but which sets the angle of the deck camber as well, Drawing 5. A deck camber template is shown in Photo This particular example is double thickness to provide for a small, spring loaded, aluminium clip which holds the plate in position for soldering.
At intervals of about 50mm small separators are spot soldered between the strips. The solder fillet between the upper strip and the deck edge will run in easily from the outside of the joint provided that the two components are clean and prefluxed. Joins in the lower strips may be lapped, but those in the upper strip should be butted, with a small butt strap on the underside. After the gap between the two strips has been thoroughly cleaned the hull can be laid on its side and resin poured into the space between the strips.
Theoretically, any resin would do but something fairly strong is preferable. I used epoxy casting resin on Kashmir and this is very strong but takes several hours to set.
A better compromise is polyester or polyurethane, both of which are fast setting and adequately strong. A disadvantage of polyester is that the surface exposed to the air remains tacky, though it is possible to take advantage of the high viscosity of the resin to overfill the space so that the meniscus is outside it and the surplus can be filed off to give a neat finish, Drawing 6.
Obviously it is possible to fill only a short section at a time, working around the hull and supporting it as necessary. On completion the hull will be much more stable and transverse braces can be fitted at deck level or, more precisely, just under the inwale. For these a 6mm square U beam folded from 0. Bulkheads can now also be fitted but this must be done carefully to avoid heating the hull plates sufficiently to soften a seam. If this happens then the seam will reset with the plate heated and expanded.
Since it will no longer be possible to return the hull to the former the resulting bulge will be at least a problem, and might be disastrous. As previously noted, it is possible to eliminate this kind of distortion in a completed shell, but it is difficult at best and carries a risk of making matters worse. The safest method of fitting a bulkhead is to spot solder the edge in the centre of a plate, away from the seam, leaving the iron in place only long enough to make the blob of solder flow.
This, repeated on each plate, will tack the bulkhead firmly into position. Working quickly and carefully it is now possible to fill in the gaps between the solder tacks with more tacks, a blob at a time working at separated points and not trying to get a continuous solder line. It is then possible to run each blob carefully into the next. Alternatively, once the bulkhead has been tacked firmly in place the edge can be bonded to the hull with a fillet of epoxy resin and this is probably the safer approach.
The small aluminium clips shown in Photo 11 are invaluable for this, and for holding parts in place while soldering.
The Ship Model Forum • View topic - Simulating Hull Plating Methods
Eagle is made from overlapped, riveted steel plates- the lines and rivets are prominent features of the real ship's hull. I thought about maybe gluing very thin pieces of styrene sheet to the hull in places, but that seems like it could be problematic on a hull with lots of compound curved surfaces. Results in a slight ridge in the paint making a shadow line. Both methods will work. The tape and heavy primer is certainly easier with any hull.
The difficulty with the styrene stock depends on the lines of the hull. I generally use that on lakers great lakes freighters that have simpler, fuller lines, so it is not as much challenge there. I'm not sure I can see that detail in the photo. Also, any overlay means replacing all of the other detail such as port hole frames. What I do see is a lot of "oil canning" between the frames. While there are various ways to achieve that, again it will affect a lot of other detail that Imai included.
That Imai kit is the one really accurate model available, and as it's no longer easy to find, if it ever was, I'd work with it as is. I seen a video of a guy using the tape for finger nails women use to decorate their nails. The tape is very thin and after painting it look quite convincing as hull plates. Alternately, a person with a decent art program like gimp could make a bunch of black rectangles with "spattered" edges, and print those on to decal film. Laying those over a white hull would give a black hull with mottled white edges.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login or Register. COM Enter keywords or a search phrase below: Search.
Order Ascending Order Descending. Posted by rcboater on Tuesday, January 1, PM. Don Stauffer. Member since September Here's a great thread from days past, in which you and I participated.
Marcus McBean. Member since July From: Philadelphia Pa. Any thoughts or experiences to share? No experiences on hull plating yet but some thoughts. How wide do you believe the overlap should be for the plating at this scale?
Are you considering doing both the Horizontal and smaller Vertical lines? It is a rare a kit to practice hull plating on. Similar scale, similar plating lines. If interested, you can still get all the Plans free from the Coast Guard thru the Freedom of Information act. But, this is not about me, it's about solutions. Posted by rcboater on Wednesday, January 9, PM. Thanks for the input guys. I think I will give the primer and tape, and the decal methods a shot, and see which I like better.
Lord knows I have a bunch of thick decals from old Tamiya kits in the scrap bag! The late John Tilley posted at length about this in mutiple threads on this forum about Eagle and her sister ships. The kit is also the only one that is a decent representation of the ship in the "modern" age- it looks like the ship when I sailed on her in the early '80s.