Remember me. Forgot my Password. Log In. Groups Stories Questions People. Without hesitation or a trace of humor, she responded, [i]'Oh, it's the spanking that makes them so nice.
Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. I just want TWO minutes. Yes, I will be required to forgive them. The ramifications of that Amish spanking stories me too angry to speak about with sanctified speech! People that I love, fellowshipped with, had fun with, and hung out with are now ordered to shun me.
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However, discipline means to teach and not to hit. This is far from discipline storles a biblical manner. My parents acted as a loving team. The Bible is a confession of faith Amish spanking stories a testimonial of successful child-rearing. The spanking group provides Bible truth. Where did that notion come from? Most criminals in jail WERE spanked. A dozen pieces, no more. There is study after study demonstrating what I have said. Most recently an art gallery, but Fun adult sex videos went out Amish spanking stories business storles five years ago. I am a mother of three grown children.
In the piece, Kraybill explains why Amish use physical punishment to discipline children, citing an Amish mother named Hannah:.
- God, another aisle of Midwestern, north woods, "gone fishin'" kitsch.
- In the piece, Kraybill explains why Amish use physical punishment to discipline children, citing an Amish mother named Hannah:.
In February, I received an e-mail from a reader using a Columbia University address — Torah Bontrager — that ended curiously:. Those peace-loving bearded folks from Witness? I called Torah, and after just a few minutes, I knew this post had to be written. For those of you who feel trapped because of a job or self-imposed obligations as an entrepreneur, this will put things in perspective. Torah Bontrager after escaping the Amish at age To start, tell us a little about your background.
I was born in Iowa. We moved to Wisconsin when I was three and to Michigan when I was ten, and I lived with my family in traditional Amish communities this whole time. I escaped from my family and the Amish when I was fifteen. Four of my siblings were born after I escaped.
These experiences taught me self-reliance, self-preservation, and gave me the ability to relate to non-American familial cultures much better than I might otherwise. I consider these negatives as personal positives in a somewhat perverted or distorted way.
The Amish do not send their children to formal schooling past 8th grade. A Supreme Court case prevented forcing Amish children into high school on grounds of religious freedom. For four years, I tried to come up with a way that I could leave before turning eighteen without my parents being able to take me back, so I could go to school.
People generally have a peaceful image of the Amish. Can you explain the physical abuse? Parents routinely beat their children with anything from fly swatters, to leather straps the most typical weapon , to whips those are the most excruciating of , to pieces of wood.
When I was a little girl, my mom used to make me run down to the cellar to retrieve a piece of wood to get beaten with. Luckily, I discovered that the thick ones hurt less. My dad was a hunter and taught me to shoot. One evening after eighth grade, when I was fourteen, I came back from target practice in our field.
The sun was just setting and I paused for a moment on a little knoll just below the house to enjoy the view. I had just gotten done with a good practice shooting, and I remember that the thought suddenly struck me: today would be a good day to die. I thought that if I died, I wanted to die without being mad at my mom. So I thought, I might as well take the opportunity to do so before I got back to the house—at which point who knows whether there would be another fight or a beating.
I put a bullet in the chamber and raised the rifle up. The closer it got to my head, the faster my heart beat. I was taught that whoever committed suicide would go to hell. But I was so miserable in the Amish culture that I believed God would understand that my motives were good.
I had never had that thought before in my life. I had always thought I wanted to die. It was an instant flash of revelation—one that appeared and disappeared just as quickly. I branded that thought and feeling into my head. Many of the world's most famous entrepreneurs, athletes, investors, poker players, and artists are part of the book. The tips and strategies in Tribe of Mentors have already changed my life, and I hope the same for you. Who was interviewed? Check it all out by clicking here.
You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Google account. You are commenting using your Twitter account. You are commenting using your Facebook account. Notify me of new comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email. Comment Rules: Remember what Fonzie was like? Have fun and thanks for adding to the conversation! Thanks to Brian Oberkirch for the inspiration.
I assume that you do not mean that Torah is not speaking the truth as she has experienced it, but rather you mean that the kind of treatment she describes as being common in her community is not in fact common in all Amish communities.
The fact that Amish communities vary in the amount of abuse they experience does not make the story untrue. Rape, incest, pedophilia, child abuse, spouse abuse, and elder abuse are undoubtedly much more widespread in our own communities than we care to admit, as these are subjects that carry a great deal of fear and shame with them, and therefore are not usually discussed openly.
I disagree that all religions reject critical thinking, and suggest that you can only make such a statement about a religion you have followed yourself. Like Like. I live in Douds, IA. In fact my in-laws live right next door to the Amish school house in Lebanon.
They have all been a blessing in our life. Everything from helping us move to providing good down home hospitality. I must admit I know nothing about the abuse you speak of. Literally partying on a Saturday night with their English neighbors. They have picnic tables, partable gazebos and tiki tourchses all in the front yard.
Looks like a fun bunch. I have not met them yet. I can send you a picture if you like. My parents were born Amish and their parents my grandparents left the Amish church while my parents were still young. However, I grew up learning how to speak Pennsylvania Dutch. I have a funny story to tell about calling PA Dutch Amish. But one day I was bragging to somebody how many languages I knew.
I was trying, of course, to figure out how to inflate the number. I just came about 2 weeks ago from the area of Germany that Pennsylvania Dutch as it known colloquially among the Amish, Old Order Mennonites, Lutherans, etc, which is a perversion of Pennsylvania Deutsch originated from and I could easily communicate mutual intelligibility, which you throw around without having anything to back it up in Pennsylvania Dutch with the older people there.
I think someone else hit the nail on the head when they said that you are trying to capitalize on your upbringing and make a quick buck by dramatizing and embellishing your story. They range on the conservative-liberal scale from Swartzentruber to New Order.
I just got finished hanging out with four New Order Amish girls in Europe for two weeks and we had a blast. They were quite well educated and well read. They had loving parents who taught them well. I have Amish friends in Kansas my home state that I hang out with quite a bit. The situation is the same there. Loving parents, extremely well educated, even tech-savvy!
Three of them are computer programmers! So indeed you might see some honest-to-goodness Amish posting on here setting you straight. Phonetic spelling alert! I mentioned that I had never heard Amish use that term in reference to their language. The Amish do call their language Amish.
However, in Amish, we call it Amish. See my comments elsewhere in this post for an elaboration on the whole language vs. What an eye opener, the general impression one has of the Amish is that they are such gentle people. My heart bleeds for the little ones getting beaten. I will be back for part 2. Thanks for sharing. I just finished reading all these posts wow, lots of feedback , including the ones that seem to be looking at the blog entry as a some sort of all-encompassing generalization of Amish culture.
Torah — it is in people like you that other people find the strength to make changes in their own lives, no matter how subtle. I applaud you, and your courage to come out and tell people about your weakest moments, you are a positive role model for many. Just because a group of people claim to have an organized religion should not make them immune to the laws our society has put in place. They are still a group of people, with some degree of similarity in their beliefs and behaviour, and they do things their own way.
I am a firm believer that people should have the right to practice their own faith, but I draw the line when people claim to be practicing their faith when they are hurting other people either, physically, emotionally, or otherwise.
For the record, her claims of being a licensed pilot are completely false. No female with that name has ever completed the hours required for the license she claims. ABUSE is bad, we all get it. Abuse can occur by warped people anywhere. We do not know the extent of her abuse and we should not lose focus from the main point of this forum by trying to speculate on the actual extent or her motivations.
We did not ask to be born in a certain environment.
Isn't it, sir? Outdoor Domestic Discipline 55, I am also a social psychologist. Nor did he see her smile as the flat back of the finely crafted implement arced down with an impact neither could ever have anticipated. Only the words do NOT mean hitting. I am personally more hurt and sad that my parents hit me, than angry. Any teaching against the unity of the deity, and all that that entails…especially, unity of character throughout the whole of the Bible, would be considered heresy by early Christians, all of whom were native Israeli Jews.
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The teachings and the preachings in these groups are as follows: All you have to do is to obey the church leaders and your soul is secure. Some preach the New Birth is obeying your parents, which in turn means obeying the preachers. Another pressure point is: If you don't obey your parents by staying Amish, the parents will also go to hell.
Whole sermons are based on obedience to the church and obeying your parents, or go to hell. Even if I wasn't Swartzentruber Amish I was taught the same things. So I purposed in my heart I will never, never leave the Amish, but God refused to save me until I left because I had put my trust in being Amish instead of Christ to save me. Your second point about parents going to hell for their children's choice rings a bell in my mind. Monroe's letter from his parents said, "We don't want to go to hell.
That just makes me sad. I love my parent's and that would be heartbreaking but I understand the relationships are probably different. Which would be my question, when the Amish families are together, do the talk and share stories and ask parents for advice like my family or is it more closed mouthed? Emma, in my experience with Old and Swartzentruber Orders, children do not talk to, share stories with, nor ask parents for advice.
In fact, the moms have the babies, siblings raise the babies, and peers become the support system; there's a gap between children and their parents. When Amish youth have question, they ask peers for advice. Our Harvey told us, "The only time my dad talked to me was about business," meaning the business of spanking. Oh ya and still love to ask mom for advice! Thanks for your comments Naomi. You remind readers that there are variations of family behavior even within an order.
To say, "All Amish do this" is to gloss over a complex culture. And let me tell you, it is harsh, warning, scarey. I feel sorry for those who receive it from their parents in an attempt to get scare or coerce them to return Amish.
Parents that follow any form of legalism do what they have to do to keep their kids on the straight and narrow.
Although the parents of Mosie and the others never said it, I believe in their hearts, they believe they were doing this out of love, and this is the only way they know how to express it, by keeping them "saved. When I left the extremely legalistic church I had been attending all my life, I got a visit from a group of "concerned sisters in Christ" sent by the pastor, trying to convince me to see the error of my ways and return.
That's when former hugs, kisses, greetings, etc. Since I was already married, my dad didn't say much, but my mom did ALL the time. Every chance she got she'd quote the "children obey your parents" thing. I know I hurt them. A lot.
To this day, that's been a struggle for me. I've never quite gotten over the "children obey your parents. I hope they can work through the guilt part as they begin understanding the whole salvation, saved by grace, not works, and there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus relationship with Christ. As for those who don't choose to seek this relationship with Christ, they will most definitely struggle with the guilt thing for a long time. Thanks for sharing your perspective; as always I appreciate you reading and commenting.
The absence of love and affection in the letters is heartbreaking. I think the way they treat their children is indicative of their view of God. I've been told by most of the ex-Amish that God is perceived as vindictive and waiting to pounce on anyone who breaks a rule. Since the earthly father is all business without affection, then children have only the earthly one to compare to the Heavenly one.
It breaks my heart to read what Mosie and the others went through, and are still going through, in their search for the truth. I feel as though I am always contradicting you with my stories of my Amish friends. They are different. Their countance is different. Their actions are different. Their way of living is different. More gentle. More loving. Less rigid. Less harsh. They are Old Order, but the kids run to the door when dad gets home.
They sit on the swing and snap beans and talk about the day. The younger dads the ones in my generation are so kind and thoughtful to their wives and kids. It saddens me to hear of such heartbreak and callousness in the world. The fallen world. And religion and legalism make excellent bed partners. Some can see glimpses of the Truth and keep easing that way; others see glimpses of the Truth and run that Way. I have prayed and will continue to pray for Mosie and those who have felt the harshness of an earthly father.
But something that I have trained myself to remember is that there are bad apples in every bushel. There are plenty of bad apples in the English world who treat their kids as bad, if not worse, under the guise of Christianity.
And I pray for them, too. Thank you, Brenda, for loving Jesus and His people. Blue Eyes, I'm just curious as to where you live? I live near Amish communities, but not close enough to get to know anyone.
Dali, the commenter Blue Eyes lives in a small Ohio town. You aren't contradicting me rather, you're proving my point that Amish are different; Orders, settlements, sects, and families. One cannot read a book or watch a TV show and make sweeping assumptions about all Amish from that one exposure. As a former Amish I got a tweet mrdeleted a while back from a lady that interviewed you It was interesting.
I just checked my twitter mentions, so I listened to it. Would be interesting to get to chat with you sometime. Joseph, I know you're former-Amish and believe at one time we were following each other on twitter.
I know you also have a Fb group about the Amish language. Thanks for reading and leaving your comment, you're welcome here anytime! I also have a relatively large members group called My Amish Recipes. Maybe we can do a video together for youtube. Last month Monroe tried to talk to his parents. They reminded him that he's going to hell unless he returns to Amish. Mosie's dad gave it to him. Josh and Harvey each got one from their parents. Sarah received hers a few weeks ago. Her brother Monroe who lives with us came home and threw it in my lap.
What am I talking about? The " Letter. The first time I read Mosie's our "adopted" ex-Amish son letter I thought it was so ominous, so callous, so negative and devoid of any mention of love. I don't know how Mosie withstood the forlorn words of condemnation and shame. While he didn't express his feelings, I perceived Mosie's self-doubt, pain, and confusion. His letter told of those who left the Amish to face the "dangerous path" and how miserable their choice made the parents and how they broke the parents' hearts.
By "disobeying parents," the child was on his path to hell! Only obedience to parents and returning to Amish gives one a hope of Heaven. Then I learned, from others at that time, the letter wasn't original. What Mosie received from his dad was a common attempt to scare "wayward children" back into the Amish life.
When my husband and I studied Mosie's letter, we saw cut and pasted and blacked out sections. To us it suggested his father attempted to personalize a letter template. Oh, I'd be afraid to have such in my house. Really, I would be afraid to have it. What would God say? Another gal's letter from her father said, " If only you could have died when you fell out of the upstairs window.
Please do not miss treat your parents and make them so betrubt [grieved, sad]. Now please do not keep them so awake during the night of fear that you children may go to hell. Yes, after I left I got a letter warning me that they will be excommunicating me,.